Would US extradite Minnesota dentist to Zimbabwe?

hm1996

hm1996

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Don't get me wrong; not condoning what took place in Zim. but we can look for this one to top the news in days/weeks to come. First off, it plays right into zero's plot to restrict gun ownership by casting a shadow on sport hunting.

Secondly, it can, and will, be used as a smoke screen to cover God only knows what misadventures coming out of DC in the days to come.




Would US extradite Minnesota dentist to Zimbabwe?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/08/02/.../?intcmp=hplnws

Regards,
hm
 
As I hear and read more and more about this I keep thinking about Rocky's signature line. First, I do not believe we know what happened in Africa other than a lion was killed. Could the hunter or guide SEE that it was a collared lion? That is a pretty healthy and thick mane Cecil had that could easily have obscured a collar. Second, was the conservatory watching over the lion taking steps to see that he remained on refuge property? Fences or anything? What steps were being taken to keep him where he belonged? I know that the bait was placed to close to the boundary(500yds) but was the guide intentionally trying to draw a lion off of refuge land? It could have been placed much farther away than it was and still have drawn the cat or cats to it. I guess that I am really getting tired of the(as Rocky would put it) the stupidity of the average American in jumping to conclusions and going viral over such trivial matters, when we have things like Planned Parenthood harvesting baby parts, Commiefornia outlawing bosses, supervisors etc, traitorous politicians and Obungho and his shenanigans. There are much, much more important things to get stirred up about.
 
They will hang him in Africa because he made the black guide break the law by holding him at gunpoint. The guide simply was under extreme duress and oppression.
 
it has yet to be proven whether any laws were broken at all!

the african countries have to know that if they follow through with punishing this guy some how, that the sport hunting dollars will dry up. then how will they pay for protecting their precious named animals?

my guess is that when it blows over nothing will have been done and sport hunting will resume.
 
Originally Posted By: Big_Foot First, I do not believe we know what happened in Africa other than a lion was killed. Could the hunter or guide SEE that it was a collared lion? That is a pretty healthy and thick mane Cecil had that could easily have obscured a collar.

Good points.

I understand the collar was visible only at certain angles, not visible at most. Also, shooting a collared animal in Zim is not illegal, but a personal moral decision, much like hunting coyotes the year 'round. Another point is that preserve animals are fair game off the preserve and baiting is considered to be the preferred method of hunting cats.

Having said that, the good Dr. has a somewhat shady hunting record, having been convicted of taking a bear illegally a few years back, but was he complicit in anything illegal here? Personally, I tend to blame the PH, but that does not necessarily mean the Dr. was totally blameless in the matter.

First off, hunters in Africa must rely on their PH as to when and where to take the shot and which animal is to be taken. He also relies on his PH to be sure he is in compliance with the game laws in effect. This alone places the blame squarely on the PH in my book......unless the Dr. offered a large tip on condition of taking a record book animal (and made it clear he was not concerned w/game laws) which would make him complicit IMO. There is no way of knowing what transpired in that regard.

My son hunts Africa regularly and he offers some insight into the way the system works and some of the politics which could affect this incident.

The hunt took place on a "small" (for Africa) 4500 acre concession which Mugabe took away from the white farmer who developed it and gave to a crony under his version of "hope and change". The new owner did not have a lion on quota for this "small" parcel, which adjoined Hwange National Park. This would make lion hunting illegal on that property.

The Dr. may/may not have been aware of the fact that hunting a lion on this property was technically* illegal as he must rely on the PH for that info. Enter *Quota Swap, a common practice by some professional hunters who do not have a lion (or whatever game species) on quota where it was shot, but do have one on another concession that they have arranged to hunt, so they claim the animal was taken on the covered concession. Zim Parks recently issued a statement forbidding quota swaps.

A likely scenario could have been that the hunter wounded the lion with an arrow (on property which did not have a lion on quota) and then he and/or the PH or both tracked the animal and dispatched it (40 hours later) planning to do a quota swap. When the collar was discovered, he/they allegedly tried to cover the location of the kill by destroying the collar. The gps collar would make quota swap impossible and regulations require you to notify the authorities within 24 hours of wounding a dangerous game animal. Furthermore you have to get permission to pursue a wounded animal into a park, thus PH had no choice but to fess up.

Sounds reasonable to me????

One thing for sure, the anti-hunting crowd has jumped on it like flies on...............

Regards,
hm
 
I don't care about a lion in Africa.

Lessons learned, is that you can't just pay a guide to take you..

You, had better ask to see the tags, and take them into the government offices and check them to make sure that you have a tag, are legal, and where that tag is for.


I find it hard to believe that the Dentist was anything but a paying customer. I can take people out coyote hunting and be within 500yrds of a golf course and they would have no idea it was there.

I don't really see a Dentist from the USA knowing where he is, or have any impressions that he could or would have known what a fence for a park would look like. Now, if they show me a 10' fence out there great. I would expect that he would know that he was next to a preserve. But, most likely, there are some flags and markers, but if there was a fence, i doubt it, since you don't have to have the best fence in the world to stop a LION from walking through it.

It's also not illegal to bait, we do that here, so it's normal to bait predators.. I would also be sold on him not knowing and only focused on the animal and where to put the arrow. Not looking for a collar (collared doesn't mean can't shoot)

Maybe, if it's some special lion, they should have kept it on their land.

But, there are so much worse issues going on, and people are worried about a specific lion, and no one is saying that it's illegal to hunt lion there, just what he did.
This all of course could change, but, right now, i haven't seen anything from anywhere that shows any clear laws broken. (including the tag swaps, which is new, and in that part of the world, not having published the changes is nothing new)
 
What about the 100's of Americans that are killed every year by Illegal Undocumented Aliens??


Where the "F" is the outcry?


Cecil is now in Heaven, let him sleep!


Love,

Hillary Clinton

Hillary for Prison 2016
 
While the lion is a sideshow, this doctor is not a sympathetic figure. The reason he was bow hunting is because he is a felon I believe. He was convicted in Wisconsin over an illegal bear he shot, five or so years ago. So I don't give his word much weight. We have to remember we need the FULL story, but this guys credibility, along with the $50,000 reward to the guys locating him a big lion, could lead to doing things that they otherwise might not. So being convicted already on game violations, I'm not as quick to believe his story. The only difference between Obama is he should be convicted on multiple accounts of misuse of office. But the U.S. Congress is in cahoots. But I do wish people would be this worked up over the illegal stuff the government does everyday. The ATF gun-walking scandal still chaps my hide.
 
Originally Posted By: Eugene CanterburyWhile the lion is a sideshow, this doctor is not a sympathetic figure. The reason he was bow hunting is because he is a felon I believe. He was convicted in Wisconsin over an illegal bear he shot, five or so years ago. So I don't give his word much weight. We have to remember we need the FULL story, but this guys credibility, along with the $50,000 reward to the guys locating him a big lion, could lead to doing things that they otherwise might not. So being convicted already on game violations, I'm not as quick to believe his story. The only difference between Obama is he should be convicted on multiple accounts of misuse of office. But the U.S. Congress is in cahoots. But I do wish people would be this worked up over the illegal stuff the government does everyday. The ATF gun-walking scandal still chaps my hide.

1. was the illegal bear a felony?
2. why would it matter if it was, he was on another continent?
3. do you have ANY basis for stating that he might be a felon?
4. do you have any FACTS about the guy?

this is how internet stories come about, you suggest he was a felon. and somehow because he offered up a chunk of cash to get a big lion that that act somehow shows he has no credibility.
 
Originally Posted By: 6724
Eugene Canterbury said:
While the lion is a sideshow, this doctor is not a sympathetic figure. The reason he was bow hunting is because he is a felon I believe. He was convicted in Wisconsin over an illegal bear he shot, five or so years ago. So I don't give his word much weight. We have to remember we need the FULL story, but this guys credibility, along with the $50,000 reward to the guys locating him a big lion, could lead to doing things that they otherwise might not. So being convicted already on game violations, I'm not as quick to believe his story. The only difference between Obama is he should be convicted on multiple accounts of misuse of office. But the U.S. Congress is in cahoots. But I do wish people would be this worked up over the illegal stuff the government does everyday. The ATF gun-walking scandal still chaps my hide.

1. was the illegal bear a felony?
2. why would it matter if it was, he was on another continent?
3. do you have ANY basis for stating that he might be a felon?
4. do you have any FACTS about the guy?

this is how internet stories come about, you suggest he was a felon. and somehow because he offered up a chunk of cash to get a big lion that that act somehow shows he has no credibility.

[/quote

Sir I did find this info you may like to read. The guy is no sportsman. The bear charges were federal charges. A story I read somewhere also mentioned it was a felony. So using a bow seemed logical. It matters on another continent because you can't own a gun in the U.S. if you are a felon. And therefore surely can't travel with a gun to another place. Research this guy on your own. How much do you want to bet that the more we find out the worse it gets for this guy? Other than pleading guilty to the federal offense, you are right, I have no personal knowledge of his felonious activities. I stay away from felons. This isn't internet conjecture, there are a few cases this guy has been convicted of. So when you violate game laws again and again, I consider your credibility to be worthless, as I do the good doctors explanation forthcoming on his lion hunt. If you do a search for doctor Walter Palmer bear hunting violation, you will find numerous stories.

http://m.startribune.com/local/318943371.html
Click to expand...
 
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Here's the telling story. Along with some other dandy stuff this guy is about. The idiot got caught without having a fishing license.The dentist has no credibility. As to your question about the cash, here is this quote. "But the two people he hired to lure the lion to its death have been charged with breaching hunting quotas and appeared in court Wednesday." So if you want more info, you have to do a little work. They lured the lion out at night by dragging a dead carcass behind a truck for 1/2 mile out of the park. Yeah that's a great way to hunt. Might as well as snuck into the zoo and bagged a critter. Funny how his illegal lion hunt was ironically similar to his illegal bear hunt in WI. I guess felonious leopards don't change their spots after all. He likes to sexually harass women also. There is proof in one of the links for that also.


http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/cecil-...-felony-n400226
 
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It is my understanding that $50,000 is the going rate (which I think includes the licenses) to hunt lion most places, so the payment to the PH is not out of line.

Quote:
Theo Bronkhorst, Honest Ndlovu (yellow shirt) Arrive at Hwange Court 0:37

Together they are charged with illegally killing the animal because they had "no permit or quota to justify the offtake of the lion and therefore are liable for the illegal hunt," the Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife Management Authority said in a statement Monday.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/cecil-...-felony-n400226

While Dr. Palmer's record does nothing to enhance his moral judgment and reputation, the primary responsibility, at this time, lies w/the PH and Honest Trymore Ndlovu (Ndlovu means elephant in Shona). Of course Bronkhorst and Ndlovu's testimony may very well implicate the Dr.

One way or the other, incidents like this put all hunters in a bad light and we can look forward to no good coming from it.

Regards,
hm
 
I have no pity for a lion half way around the world... If any of you are into that sort of thing, here are some Africans interacting with lions;



lol.gif
lol.gif
 
Yup. They are going to try and come down on hunting with the heavy weight of all involved in any cause. From guns to vegetarians. The idea that nobody knew that they were hunting in a zone that didn't have a lion allotment quota is pushing the bounds of believability. And then add in the fair chase ethics he doesn't have at all. And then his previous record, this guy is bad for all hunters. This guy didn't give a d@mn about anything regarding hunting ethics at all. This guy shouldn't be allowed to so much as swat a mosquito as long as he's drawing in oxygen. This guy is a posterboy for bad hunting. While the Africans hold some responsibility, it's imperative that you know what zone you are hunting in. That is like rule 1. Make sure you can hunt the specific game in the area you are in. I don't take other people's word, because legally it don't ever matter. This is gonna be the story of some rich American going to Africa to kill stuff, and not follow the laws. I bet he's screwed up a lot of people's hunts coming up this year already. I'm sure they would of charged Palmer if he was there. If he's so cockstrong sure, he should take himself back there and defend his actions.
 
Eugene, just a little friendly advice. The simple fact that someone has a different opinion than you or I does not imply they have no credibility. I don't always agree with you and I'm sure you don't always agree with me. But that's OK, neither of us are infallible and neither is anyone else.(imo including the Pope) You're a relatively new member here, that's why I'm speaking up to alert you in a friendly way. This forum has gone through several years of terminating memberships for things like personal attacks and has been relatively free of these disturbing situations for a while now. It's up to you as to whether you comply or not, no skin off my teeth. However you might expect some unpleasant correspondence from the mods if you can't find it in your heart to get along. This is the internet and everybody seems to think they're a badazz but it really doesn't give one credentials when you attack other members. Take it for what it's worth my friend.
 
Originally Posted By: azmastablastaEugene, just a little friendly advice. The simple fact that someone has a different opinion than you or I does not imply they have no credibility. I don't always agree with you and I'm sure you don't always agree with me. But that's OK, neither of us are infallible and neither is anyone else.(imo including the Pope) You're a relatively new member here, that's why I'm speaking up to alert you in a friendly way. This forum has gone through several years of terminating memberships for things like personal attacks and has been relatively free of these disturbing situations for a while now. It's up to you as to whether you comply or not, no skin off my teeth. However you might expect some unpleasant correspondence from the mods if you can't find it in your heart to get along. This is the internet and everybody seems to think they're a badazz but it really doesn't give one credentials when you attack other members. Take it for what it's worth my friend.


Yea you're right. I just misread his comment as something different. So I know I can get explosive while debating these things. I actually appreciate every comment that is backed up in logic and thought. I hope 6724 can forgive me this one time as I let my already frustrated mind from watching the ridiculous news coverage, carry over into my online activity. Thanks for throwing some needed cool water on this. But I still think the doctors credibility is nil. A repeat game violator, seems to not learn. Unfortunatly this doctor will most likely buy his way out of this mess, and leave all hunters with a tarnished reputation. Sorry gentlemen of the church of the painful truths.
 
Originally Posted By: Mr. PoppadopalisBe nice Eugene!

Personal attacks are exactly that, personal attacks!!


All my love,

Hillary

Very true! Snide remarks withdrawn against the gentleman from Colorado.




Hillary for prison 2016!
 
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